If You Like Money, Start a Personal Brand - Content Guru Brendan Mulson

Brandon, welcome in a fair forward, dude. Appreciate you, my man. You walk in here, you've got your actual marketing media shirt on. I have to, right? You have to. You're the founder of this business. And first of all, I got to say, love the logo. It looks fire. I appreciate that. But I got to ask, when did you want to start doing this? How did this even start for you?

I think I've always been that type of person that has wanted to start his own business. I come from like a middle-class family, so it was never encouraged for me to start a business, but it wasn't like not encouraged. My parents were always very supportive. Did you have people around you that had started businesses? Weirdly enough, I was just always in that mindset. think I wouldn't call myself an internet kid, but I think the internet era, you see people and the realities and possibilities of what you can really do starting your own business, obviously.

It looks, it's very glamorized and very... Yeah, like you see the best of it. Yeah, of course. You don't see the worst of see when they're successful, you don't see the six years of time that they spent absolutely broke doing it every single day. It's just your second interview of the day. That's what drives me though, is that I can work harder and make more money. I think the thing that made me feel so disenfranchised with the nine to five or with the idea of working for somebody else is that I can put in 110 % and get paid the same as if I put in 10%.

And I think I was always the type of person with basketball. grew up playing sports my entire life and it was always the harder you work, the better you get and the more you get from it. So you touched on the fact that you did work in nine to five. So you have experience not being an entrepreneur. What did you do? So I guess a little bit of a backstories. used to sell solar panels and you can make good money doing I was up and only going door to door knocking on people's doors. But it came to a point where it's four p.m. It's pitch black out. I'm wearing a light up lanyard knocking on somebody's door, telling them that the sun is going to produce their energy and save them money. It's like, where the hell is the sun right now, bro?

You know what mean? It's just like that kind of mental state you're in. You know, then in the winter times, I mean in the summer times, 7 p.m., 8 p.m., it's still light outside. You're still going door to door and people are still answering and it makes a little bit more sense. They're like, all right, like it's summertime. But I've never felt like more anxiety in my entire life. Like waking up being like, my God, I have to go at noon today or 11 o'clock and start, get in my car. I literally would get in my car, look up somewhere on the map, you know, in some town local to me, park my car.

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and just start walking around and knocking on doors with business cards, Just do loops of neighborhoods. Dude, I've probably had the same neighborhood five different times, talked to the same people. And I just remember the anxiety that gave me, whether that was justified or not. Why did I have so much anxiety over that? I don't know. I just knew I couldn't do that anymore. And since starting my business seven, eight months ago, I never felt more alive and had that sense of like, I do whatever I want on a daily basis. And I don't think that everybody has that. Well, let's talk about what you're doing right now, right? So you got a background in content, but what is Markitive? What is it exactly? Markitive is essentially just a full service marketing agency that we

essentially focus more on video to be honest with you. I'm in a weird point in my business where I definitely want to do video more and more because that's my expertise but I also still want to get into that full social media service like essentially just taking over your social media for you in full instead of just doing videos or you know doing a podcast setup. I really want to take it full service. right now you're doing you're doing content. Yeah basically content. And you would love to step into like the full scale. I'll manage you top to bottom. Yeah exactly because I think

If I think about it for myself, that's what I would want. I would want somebody to say, hey, I'm to come in and just take over for you. You know what mean? Instead of being like, here, I'll do 10 videos for you. Like, what can I really do with that? I want to sell an entire package because I think if, like I said, if I was that person, I would just want that you pay money. And then I don't, want my hands to be free. I don't want to have to post, upload, you know, comment back or, know, make the captions or whatever it is. And I think, you know, maybe as you grow, you, you afford yourself the privilege to be able to pass those things off like right now for me and maybe even for you, like

I'm not at the point where I can just film and send that off. I kind of am a one man show. It sounds like we're both in a similar place. We're both building to the point where we can have that luxury, but you have to earn that right, I feel like. And I think something a little bit off topic, I think what I want to do with my content, I was going to ask you a little bit, I want to be more raw and real with the stage I'm at because I think nowadays people...

on the internet try to come off as such an authority figure because they feel like that's the only way that they can sell what they need to sell or feel like the perception of them is a real business owner providing a real service, which of course you want to come off that way. But I think being more raw and real about the stage you're at in your business and what's really going on behind the scenes is something I want to do because I people can resonate with that more than they would somebody that says everything's peachy keen. I make all this money. I can help you.

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And we're going from there. It's so interesting you say that though, because I feel like the content world is trending towards like authenticity. agree. I want to hear about what's going wrong. I don't necessarily want to see your wins. I do, but I also want to see the losses you took before you won. Yeah. And I feel like maybe I just wasn't in the right, you know, the algorithm wasn't putting me in the right place, but I was used to seeing a lot of wins. I didn't see a lot of failures. Yeah. And that was part of the genesis of this is like, I want to highlight people that come on and talk about their wins, but also their losses because, know, at the end of the day, what is social media all about? I think

I want to feel part of a community. I want to feel like I'm not alone. Yeah. And I will feel alone if I'm doing a lot of work, but I only see people winning and I'm losing. Yeah. Because you're like, what am I doing wrong? You know, it's like the comparison is a thief of joy. And I think the internet has really, really honed in on that. And I think, like you said, it's starting to trend where people are showing. I think something that's a great content piece right now is cold calls. So there's this guy named Anthony Nucci out of Miami.

who's a real estate agent and he runs his team and he just posts himself just doing cold calls all day and it's kind of that split between that value and the entertainment because he shows you how he can cold call and get this person that's a multi-millionaire to talk to him for more than 10 seconds but then you get to the entertainment side where they tell him to fuck off and they go crazy on him and it's like that in between value and entertainment I think is like that's how people really get views I mean Patrick Bedavid, value-tainment 100 % you know it's value but it's entertainment and I feel like you

look you've chosen this path for yourself at the right time because I feel like and maybe I'm biased because I'm doing it too but I feel like the internet, right, as far as commercialization like brands want people to create content, brands want to use influencers, brands want to promote using, you know, I don't want to call it grassroots but using people that actually use the products and actually are authentic about them so I think this is a

really interesting time to be in the space. Yeah, and we talked about UGC content before and I think that is what's trending upwards and it has been for some years now. I think it's not a secret that a lot of these creators get paid to make, you know, advertisements for big companies because I don't think these large scale commercials with hundred thousand dollar budgets really do what it did 10, 15, 20 years ago. I agree. I think the authenticity that we speak about, the people just making videos in their cars and promoting certain things, you feel like

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you, Mike, me, Brennan, I can resonate with that girl sitting in her car or that guy sitting in his car reviewing this content or reviewing this product or whatever it might be. But when it's just a commercial on the screen and it's graphics and there's cars flying by, it's like, how can I really sit there and resonate with that? Dude, you're so right. And I read this interesting article the other day. I forget who it was published by, but the headline of the article is that there is an epidemic of loneliness amongst young people these days. And I think it's actually very correct. And I think

At one time, maybe when social media wasn't so dominant in my life to where like TikTok is in my face and Instagram is in my face, like I did want to see that highly edited, exciting stuff, right? That Mr. Beast style. Now, I almost go on social media because I want to feel like I see others that remind me of myself. Sitting in my car, I'm having a bad day, or like, hey, I just took this little win. And that's why I feel like, you know, people are starting to be like, hey, I'm like really lonely, but social media is still like very much a large part of my life. I want to find other people that are like me.

And that's why I think there's a major gap here. Not that you're trying to play to the gap, but it makes sense. You can be authentic and build a following because fundamentally people just want to connect. Yeah. Right? And I always looked at that authenticity as I'm very impressed and I have a lot of respect for the people that are vulnerable enough to just put any piece of content online and then to take it to the next notch and like show your losses and show that you're not perfect because it's weird to show people that.

Like obviously we are all human, we all know it, but to put that online for anybody to see, that's gonna be on there forever, I think is a hard jump to get over. It's hard to put yourself online. I really think it and I'd love to sit here and I think a lot of people think, yo, Mikey looks so confident on camera, maybe to some degree I am, I'm learning, but you know, I still, every time I upload, I get real nervous, like my goodness, like this is...

people are gonna see this, right? So a little bit is performative, but I'm trying to like fake it until I really believe it. I think I'm halfway there, but I wanna ask you, like you've been doing internet stuff for a while. Are you still at the point where you think about what that online persona is and how people will perceive you? Absolutely, I mean, I would love to have this conversation. I'm trying to switch my content up a little bit. I more recently haven't been posting as much as I'd like to because...

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I do want to change my content style up a little bit and I'm trying to go towards that more raw, unedited authenticity type of vibe because my idea of it is the more time someone can spend with you, like I feel like we already knew each other a little bit before this because I've seen so much of your content. And likewise. Never met you before, but when I met you, I was like, I feel like I already know this guy. 100%. And I want that to be the case so that when people want to work with me, they kind of already know who I am, what I'm about, how I sound, what I look like. How you speak. Exactly, just all of that.

So I really think, yes, to answer your question, I still feel that sense of like nervousness and like, what are people gonna think of me? But I always bring it back to it. We're all going to the same place, man. Nobody's getting out of here alive. And if I really, really care and my idol, my literally probably my biggest idol of my life comes to video content, anything is Casey Neistat. And the reason is he...

I asked that question one time like is it weird when you are like this and you're holding a camera in a random coffee shop talking to a camera looking like an insane person because it looks crazy when you see a vlogger in real life you're like this is insane totally and it's funny because when you see it on YouTube you don't actually think no you don't think about the guy behind you or whatever it is totally he's had questions like he used to do like Q &A's this was like a thing he did it because he had a YouTube series like

I think he did like 500 episodes in a row, like 500 days in a row. So he had to come up with certain. Which is by the way, that is like a feat. Me and you are like, that's That's nuts. I don't know if it was exactly 500, but it was up there. And he used to do a Q &A and somebody asked him like, like how do you get over the fear or, or the nervousness of like somebody judging you for holding a camera up? He goes, if somebody, some random person in New York city that I've never even met and I'll probably never see again, let them get into my brain about me making my content. He goes, I'll never do.

be successful in anything. So I mean, you have to get past it. You have. If you don't, you never will. It's one of those things. It took me two years to start uploading. I was making content on my own for two years behind the scenes, editing videos, posting. Funny story. I remember my first TikTok I ever put up. I posted it and then 10 minutes later I looked at it and deleted it. Wait, so you had content. Had content. For like years. Two years. That you never put anywhere. So you just had folders, drives, whatever full of stuff that was just not seen. It would be like

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it would be like me, I'd set the camera up, get the lights, I'd say all this stuff. And I think it was kind of a segue, like that imposter syndrome, what we talked about, why, I think the number one reason people don't post is because they don't think they have anything to say of value. why would I would say is gonna make a difference in your life, especially being a younger I feel that though. I'm gonna stand up, like almost before I post everything, I think to myself,

Why would anybody listen to me? Right? And that's a limiting belief that I'm trying to get over. But please proceed. But I think in your case, it's a little different because you're interviewing other people, which is interesting. It's different people. I think sometimes it's really hard for me to upload because it's just me talking to the camera. And sometimes I feel like I'm talking at my audience and I don't want to do that. I don't want to be the guy who's like, this is what you need to be doing and this is what you should do. That's why like forums like this where we're just having a conversation and it's entertaining because

You don't know me. I don't know you we're getting to know each other and then somebody else watching is doing the exact same thing. % and I think it's made even better when it's like we're gonna have an open discussion around things we're working on not a discussion to like promote a book or a service or a company like this is just life. Yeah. Right the good the bad the whatever. 100%. I still deal with that imposter syndrome man. I think that the biggest thing I'm getting over right now as a podcast host is the the negative self-talk is why would anybody want to listen to me ask people questions, right? That's the right and and so

Although I always want to host interesting people, I also want to be credentialized as a podcast host. think people tune into Joe Rogan not only because he has great guests, but because they like the way that Joe Rogan is. And for me, it feels like a mountain to climb. How do I become the person that people feel like they need to listen to? That to me feels near impossible, but I try to silence that out and upload and say, you know what, the only way I'll ever get there is if I just keep going.

Like how else are you gonna get to the point where people would wanna listen to you, just not about uploading, right? Right, and I think, but I think, you know, and this is a question, you know, that I have for you is you see, I'm sure a lot of people that are interested in content or wanna become content creators, some do and maybe some don't. I know people in my circle that would love to be on the internet, but they just, they can't push themselves to do it. Like what do you think is the reason why so many people are afraid to put themselves out there? Yeah, I think it's the one, think it's people don't feel like they have value in.

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things to say, which is a huge one. think that's probably the number one, but I think a secondary one is, interestingly enough, I think it's people's close friends and family they're scared of. judging them? Yeah, because think about it. mean, we're in New York City, right? If we were to walk down the street and just scream something crazy, somebody looks at us for five seconds, they walk past it. But if it's your mom, your buddy, your dad, they're going to judge you for that. And it's the same thing with content. People have known you, for whatever you used to be. Totally. That's it. Now you're doing podcasts. People, and this is a Hermosy quote, he's like,

and he's a little extreme for me, but I take it with a grain of salt. For sure. take the good and the bad. Dude, I take everything with a grain of Yeah, exactly. But he says, I don't go home for the holidays, because I don't want people to judge me for who I used to be, which is a little insane. I'm still going to go home for the holidays. You're like, I'll be at Thanksgiving next week. Guys, I'll be home. Don't worry. But I get what he's trying to say is like, people knew you for who you were. They knew me for who I used to be. I used to basketball player. That's how people know me. Now I'm a content creator, a business owner, and I think getting over that first initial like little hump,

of, my friends, that aren't my direct friends, because I think all your real friends are gonna support you. If they're real friends, they'll want you to succeed, whether it's with content or not, it doesn't matter. But you know there's those kids in high school or those people from college that you were friends with but not too close, and you know they're like, this is weird, why is he doing this? In the back of their head, it's cringy, so I think that little tiny seed that people can't get over, that was the biggest thing for me, is what are my close friends or the people that were in my network gonna think about me? And then once you started posting, what was the reaction? What was the reaction?

The reaction was good. It's been all positive. I've gotten all my clients from it. I think the fear is generally not valid because I think most of the time when people start posting, I think people admire vulnerability. They admire that leap of faith. I have not personally had anybody directly that I know be like, what are you doing? Yeah. And I think the hate comments, was speaking about this before, the hate comments come when you already built a big following.

Cause when's the last time you went on a post and it's got 10 comments and one of those comments is a hate comment. Never. So true. But when it's 10,000 comments, there's hate comments because people are just jealous and there's things going on in people's lives. That's what I was saying. When people post a nasty comment online, like they just got something else they got to work out. I've been dealing with it a little bit. You know, it's funny. Have you gotten some hate? A little, a little. I, you know, I just recently started a TikTok real small, but I found that YouTube has been very friendly to me. They love my, they're so wonderful. Instagram also tremendous.

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TikTok can be some diabolical shit. I feel like it's usually from younger kids. Yeah. Cause they talk way different. They'll say like, you know, like bro does this. Hell in a, you know, they don't really talk like normal people. But the other day I got a couple of comments, one of them, and I said this on my prior episode, but one of the comments was, it was a clip of me and my former guest and it said, it said, I would genuinely rather, watch someone sit in silence. And I actually laughed at it. I'm like, that's all right. That's actually hilarious. But

Good chirps, good chirps. Yeah, actually good chirps. What it's like, I personally, I don't think you're a bad person. I would never comment something like No, dude. Especially being a creator, know, like how much vulnerability it does take. I think the reason why I started posting was because I saw it close to me happen. So basically the reason I started posting was I had this content for two years. I've been making content. I've had a camera since I was 16. I've been making short films. used to...

post on my Snapchat back in the day. day in the life content. Like I've been all over the place. And what really made me be like, all right, I'm just gonna do this was my cousin started posting and I was making the content for him. And I saw all the positive feedback he got and the clients he was getting and just all the things that it did for him in his life that really I already knew was gonna happen, but just seeing it up close, you know, when you like see somebody that you really know do it and you're like, wow, like it really can work. And then secondarily, I started working for this comedian, Anthony Robustiano.

And he's got a huge following on Instagram and TikTok and being close to him and hearing his story and like getting close to him for him to tell me like, this is how it started. This is what I started posting on Snapchat. And then it went to Instagram. And then I just kept going. And it was this very, it was exactly where we're at. He used to sit in his basement on a milk carton and on a, you know, a Dell laptop. He's always, he's always talking about, and he's like, I had no idea this was going to go well. I was just doing it because I felt like I had some agency back. He was in the same position. He's like, I was working this job I hated and

corporate world and I couldn't stand my life anymore as I wake up every day and I couldn't do it anymore. And it goes, felt like I finally was myself and I was alive again. It's such a powerful feeling though. Like, you know, I felt like, you know, my back was against the wall. Like if I don't make a change in my life, I can't do this anymore. So how long, how long has this been going for now? You know, it's funny. So I started a forever forward, which initially wasn't a podcast in January of this year.

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And initially I was uploading weekly what I would call like self-help content, trying to be like, you know, a more nuanced, you know, kind of self-help guru. And after let's say five, seven uploads of that, which they were going okay, I kind of realized like, this isn't really me. I think I'm trying to be the creator that I think I should be versus the person that I actually am. And what I've always really enjoyed is having conversations like this. And I think fundamentally, I just wanted to more deeply connect with the world around me. And I thought, okay, how can I use my skills?

and turn those into a product around that and that's kind of how Forever Forward was born. So the YouTube channel, which is the same channel I post on now, has like 20 archive videos that are not podcasts, right? But it's still fun to look back on. And that's how this all started. I've always wanted to be somebody that had a podcast, but I always had that same belief that I talked about before where it's like, why would anybody listen to me? Everybody's got a podcast, right? And to some degree, everybody does have a podcast. That's another thing is that it's hard in the content world to do anything different now. Because it's all kind of been done.

Or at least you feel like it's already been done. I've always said this, the more content I consume, the less I want to create because I'm just almost discouraged. Because I'm like, wow, people are so good at this. And what am I going to create that's different from anybody else? But the thing that, and we're going to speak in cliches this whole podcast, which I hate cliches, but I realize that they're

It's their cliches for a reason hit then hit me with just there's nobody that's gonna be able to create content like Mike because there's no no other mics in the whole world dude I love that you just said that because I learned that as well. Yeah, but it's to your point I'll go through my reels and I'll see clips of other podcasts and I'll say to myself How could I ever do something that's as well done as that? Yeah, how could I ask a question? That's as nuanced as that question and then I think to myself Well, I guess I could ask it but I probably come at it from this angle and then or that angle and it's like

Maybe I do have a little niche that I can find. So part of this process for me is finding like my little corner of the podcast world. Right. Right. And every episode I iterate and I bring a new guest on and I learn something new about myself and the way to edit. And so the rabbit hole is so deep, but it's like the first time ever that I'm actually loving going down a rabbit That's awesome. It's a lifelong rabbit hole. really is. you mentioned this is 33rd podcast, right? 33rd episode. This is episode 33. Episode 33. Joe Rogan's at what?

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3,000 or something? No, what is it really? It's like thousands. It's several thousand. It might be like mid-twos. Yeah, which is insane. And it just goes to show you like he just started that one day and was just like, this is, this is- But here's my thing on it too, actually. That used to discourage me so much about like, man, he's at episode 2,300 and I'm at episode one, but Joe Rogan's in his 50s. 50s. And I'm, you know, in my mid to late 20s. And if you run the math on that, I can get there too. And maybe this is ambitious of me and maybe it sounds arrogant.

But if you don't think this way, then I don't think you should even start. I think I could do it better. That's amazing. You have to think that way. You have to. if you don't, what are you really doing? Or else what are you even trying to do? So that's not to say that I'm being big as you're wrong, but I'm finding this belief in myself through this process that I never had. Yeah, and that's hard. That's like really hard. Dude, and it's also soul crushing, right? The belief is great. And there are also days where I feel like, what am I doing?

Right? I wake up and I spend six hours on an episode that I think is like, this is the greatest thing. And you're like, this is amazing. This is it. This is it. Like, this is my ticket to the life I need. And it gets like one or two views. And they're both me. You're like, what? What am I doing wrong? Right? And I'm sure you felt that way before too. Most days, I would say. Most days, it's like I look at it as like going to the gym. Like most days, I don't really want to sit in front of my camera and make content and edit, but it's...

My alternatives go knock on doors and sell solar panels or go try to find a like a PA job working in the film industry like I just would do you'll choose that life every day every day can we talk about that though the actual life of a content creator? Yeah, the the amount of content that you you know I guess strive to put out and the amount of behind-the-scenes work because people only see little clips Yeah, right, and I feel like this is exemplified in the content world because truly you're just seeing highlights Yeah, what is it? What is it actually like? Yeah, the day in the life of a content creator is

is a lot less glamorous than it looks like online, of course. I think a lot of it is editing and I think we've talked about it before. Outsourcing that is huge and that's how people get a lot of content out posting four or five times a day on all different platforms. Doing it yourself. I mean, if you have any type of job or any type of life, we mentioned trying to lift, trying to have a relationship, trying to eat. It's like almost impossible. It's very, very difficult and you have to be truly, truly dedicated to it. I think the weird part about

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content is it almost seems like this fluky little like kid thing to do like just uploading these fun little videos online like no this is like a job like people pay me every month to do this for them as a very serious capacity secondary job it's not like like you should be creating content they're like I know I just I just I just don't want to it's like no you can't you don't have the time to if you want it to complete so what I mean to say I think is the day in life of content creator is a lot less glamorous because it's a lot of editing it's a lot of

shifting through the videos, finding the good clips, outsourcing that work. I'm sure there are hours where you sit at your monitor and you're just like looking at the timeline. Like, where do I add the little thing that probably nobody will notice? Only I will. Absolutely. Right? But like there's so much minutia. Yeah, yeah. And I was just working with a video editor the other day. He came in, a buddy of mine that lives in Long Island, and we're adding this little sound effect and it takes us like 30 minutes. like, it's great for us to know, but like...

To be honest, nobody's gonna notice that. Like, literally nobody. But that is the level of seriousness and dedication to the craft, I guess you could say, that you have to have if you really want it to go to the level that you want it to go. He said, the boss who wants to be the boss probably shouldn't be the boss. The boss who is just is the boss, or the content creator who just loves the craft is probably the person that's gonna actually do well because the other person is just trying to get it up. They're just trying to get the video up. That's all they wanna do.

One of my biggest mistakes in the beginning of Forever Forward is I viewed Forever Forward as a means to an end. Like I want to become a big podcaster so that I can have all these things. And I very quickly realized that if that's the frame that you view this goal through, it's not gonna work. Because again, as cliche as it sounds, you gotta fall in love with the process. Because the process takes a long time. And those can be quiet, lonely days where you're not getting the results you want. I said this on my prior podcast too, but I think it was Kevin Hart or somebody recently that I was listening to said, it's really hard.

you sometimes feel like you're going insane because you're doing the same thing every day and you're getting no results. He was on Joe Rogan. He's saying that. That's the definition of insanity. You're doing the same thing over and over and over expecting a different result. And that's actually what you're doing when you are consistently up. That is literally what you do. And then eventually, and you get one, you get a different result. And you try to, know, obviously every episode in every video, you're trying to be better. It's not like, but that's what Kevin Hart was speaking on is like doing that every day, getting

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and then getting up the next day and be like, I'm going even harder at a different angle in a different way. That's probably been the hardest thing is that up and down. Like you say, some days I'm like, I love this. why would I ever, I'm walking to the streets smiling, laughing, like I live my own life, do whatever I want. And there's other days where I'm like, my God, why do I do this? Why don't I just go get a regular job? Because it's hard, know, people think it's easier. It's not, it's harder. a hundred percent. Cause yeah, you just, do your role and you go home. I mean, I'm wearing every hat there that was ever made.

And there's nobody to blame. And it's actually something that I like. I actually like that I can't fall back. I'm not a blame guy, I've never been. But I like especially that I live and die by my own decisions. to some degree, when you upload a video or you upload a piece of content, you kind of just give it up to the algorithm. But also, it's like you do have the opportunity to put in every ounce of effort to make this specific thing the best it can be. And that's very empowering.

No, it's tough. We talked about on the way up here, like that quality at that scale is... When I see people upload quality videos at scale four or five times a day, I'm like, is... They're paying somebody to do that for them. It's insane. Yeah, just insane. I can't even get four or five videos up, know, shorts up in a week. In a week, yeah. I'm the same way. It's like the outsourcing you have to do for that is insane. Insane. Can we talk a bit about... So we're sat here in New York City right now, right? Which is an awesome place. It's actually a really inspiring place for me because everybody out here is hustling, right?

Everywhere from the street corners to the tallest towers people are out here trying to get it absolutely And I also think there's a general acceptance around content here in the city Yeah, where there might not be elsewhere. So maybe can you help me to understand like coming from Albany? now being here. What's the difference? I wanted to leave Albany for a while once I graduated college and went back, know I kind of knew I kind of had that little plan in my head I'm gonna be here for a couple years and I'm gonna get out of here and I think within those two years I really did

see the difference when I'd come visit New York City. have some friends in New York City or, you know, some other video editors or videographers and you come down here you really do see the level of acceptance, but just the level of variety there really is in the city. if you're, there's just not, you know, there's not enough time and there's so many people that people aren't going to focus on you. Like something I realized coming from college when I was in Boston was that my freshman year I realized I'm going to have to do things in front of people.

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For example, you go on a date with your girl and you sit there and you have a nice coffee with her, whatever. If you wanna do that in private, you just don't live in a city. Or if you wanna go and go work out and have your shirt off and do a workout outside, but you don't want people seeing you because you're self-conscious, get out of the city. So when I left and came back to Albany, I kind of got back to that weird state of almost being a little bit shy. I wouldn't want people to see me doing things. Don't know why.

you sort of regressed back to that environment. Yeah, and then you come back to New York City and you realize people are just doing things at all times and nobody really cares, No, it's like anything goes. Anything goes. And I think seeing that and seeing how content is just prevalent amongst everybody, especially in our age nowadays. Totally. So I think if this was 1980 and nobody makes content, it would be a lot harder. I think we're in a time where making content is super popular.

And when people see you do it, it's like, it's normal. But beyond that, think stuff like this is why I moved to the city. I would have never had this opportunity to come into the middle of York City. you saying that. And I don't even think I would have afforded myself the opportunity to start this if I didn't live here. Sometimes I complain about like the rent and the this and the that, but at the end of the day, the drive that living in New York City instills in you is very powerful. It's hard to ignore. Yeah. And I think being around people like you who are willing to make content and have me on a podcast or

I meet up with a local videographer friend that I have and he's pushing me. He made a video, I'm like, my god, that's such a good video. gotta create, he's like, dude, just create more. But if you're in Albany and you're the only person in your town or your three towns or your city that's making content or one of the five people that are doing it, you're comparing yourself to those five people that are good, but there's five million content creators in New York City. It can be daunting too though.

You because sometimes it's like, know, said early comparisons at Thief of Joy. Here in New York City, it's like you want to go find someone more successful than you. Like you walk one block and you'll see 10 of them. Look to your right, look to your left, look to your right. So I think it's good. But you also have to pair that, right? Because you can very quickly start to compare yourself too much. And that's something I'm working on right now. I've always been a big comparer to my friends, many of whom are more successful than me. And it's great because I push myself to be like them. But I also, you know, want to be me.

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and go at my pace because I believe I'm on a good path. So it's like, you gotta find that middle ground, but it's nice to at least be in a place where like, hey, if I wanna get pushed, I can easily do that. Right, and I think you're right. There is definitely, it's both sides to the coin and you really have to find that balance, but I think the negatives that way, the negatives in that sense where another content creator will push me to make more content other than like, the comparison I have. like you're gonna compare yourself to people for the rest of your life, so just get used to it, is my opinion. Just get used to it.

So a lot of my buddies that I compare on this topic that I compare myself with are buddies that I went to high school and went to college with, right? And we were talking before we turned the cameras on about how you did go to school and you studied, but you have a fairly, I would say, strong opinion on your college experience, at least the education component. What would you have to say about it? Yeah, I don't think education at the college is worth it for literally anybody other than a very specialized field. I think that's a pretty common thought nowadays. more and more common.

Yeah, I mean, if you really think back, I think back to the four years of what did I really learn in college? I learned how to talk to people. learned how to network. I learned how to put myself in a situation where I can meet somebody. Me too. And make it, I can conversate with just about anybody at this point. You know what mean? I think that was the number one lesson that college taught me. And I wouldn't ever go back. The fun I had, the experiences I had, the athletic experience I had was like,

second to not, I'll never forget my time as an ambassador. Once in a lifetime thing. Once in a lifetime thing. So I'll never take that back, but I do think the education side to it, for whatever reason, has just dropped. And maybe it hasn't dropped. Maybe college has always been like that. I mean, I'll go out on the record is I love the university that I went to and it was wonderful. Very rigorous academically, but like we were studying things that I don't use. Yeah. Like, why am I? It was nice to be able to learn those things, but I've forgotten 99 % of it. use maybe

1 % of what I learned in college in my actual job, do I think it was worth it? I think that's a hard question for me to answer. There were so many intangible experiences I had and so many friendships I met my girlfriend there, but at the same time, I do look back and say, hm, could I have learned everything that I use right now in both my nine to five and on YouTube on my own? 100%. Yes. Yeah. I would never take it back though because of the experiences given me, the people, I would say honestly, I paid to meet people. It's kind of what it is. Is really what happened. And I'm not talking...

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teachers, I'm talking like my friends, like the people that I rely on to this day to be my friend and you know, especially now owning my own business, they're referring me business and whatever it might be. That's what I learned. I have a network of people in Boston that I can go talk to. Now I'm trying to build that same network in New York City and just keep it going. And I think a good comparison is like this podcast, right? What would be more beneficial? You going and studying how to start a podcast for four years or just starting a fucking podcast? You're exactly right. Right? It's like I just...

You know, and it's funny, I used to watch YouTube videos like back in 2015, 16, 17, how do you start a podcast? And I would like take notes on my phone like this is what you need. This is the software, this is the camera. And then all of a sudden, back last year, I'm like, I'm just gonna fucking start a podcast. And it's like now I know everything that I need to know to make the show, I know. And I learned it in like two weeks. It's so ironic, you know. It's so ironic. It's so funny. You you think you need all this preparation and maybe in some specific fields you do, right?

I would not like for my doctor to be somebody that showed up with a lab coat and said, let me figure this out. First day on the job, let me test it out. He's like, so what's this tool? I wouldn't want that. There's certain things, right? But in the vast majority of cases, I think you generally pay to have your horizons broadened to have, to learn how to be an adult. Absolutely. And is that worth the cost? think it depends what your financial status looks like and do you get any money?

broadly speaking, it's a once in a lifetime thing. Right, and I think that's why we made the right decision going away to college. think, you know, no shade to anybody that stayed home for college. But I'm like, what was the point? You you stayed home, you probably still went home for dinners every once in a while. For sure. You really never were put into that situation where you had to go make new friends. I remember the feeling I had of, you know, being freshly out of relationship, right, going into college my freshman year. So heartbroken and then homesick at the same time. It was like a potion for disaster. I was ready to go home.

I have my parents on the phone ready to just be done. In your head, you're like, is a nightmare. And you're 18, I had never left home. And I think that experience of being heartbroken, being homesick, being confused, having no friends. I even remember going and eating in the cafe by myself. I had never done that before. I had never not gone with a friend somewhere. And I started to realize, my god, I rely on people and my friends way too much for my own happiness, but not even that, just my own entertainment.

Forever Forward (34:14.35)
Totally. just can't even go I learn how to be by myself. I know, I can't even go anywhere without my friends. I think going away to college, whether that was at a state school, whether that was at a community college just four hours away, was the best thing I could have ever done and I think anybody should do. If there's a 17 year old listening to this right now, go away. If you're gonna go to college, go away. Go two, three, four hours away. Because then you're forced to make new friends, experience new things, and that's how I feel about moving to Hoboken. I've been at home, it was very normal and...

Safe. Yeah, just cozy, man. I had all my friends and now I'm in a situation where I'm coming on podcasts. I'm going and meeting new people, you know, going out to the bars again. And, you know, we go to networking events. One of my roommates is really good at that. He'll just like sign me up for a networking event. We just go and we just go to the event, meet new people, get their Instagrams and like. Seriously? Yeah. They have, see like they have those. Dude, come with us. Hit me up. Like I'll go with Seriously, like he's really big on that. Well, there's one coming up and it's like eight bucks, 10 bucks.

You come, throw a name tag on, it's awkward in the beginning, where like, you're kind of walking around trying to figure out who to talk to, and then eventually you're like, we're all here for the same reason, just go up and talk to somebody and- That's how everything I feel like is. Hundred percent, yes. Yeah, and you speak a bit about like that networking event and your ability to be around other content creators. Has that been a big unlock for you, is actually surrounding yourself with people that are doing the same thing? Yeah, I need to go to more events that are like-

content creator events. It's been kind of more general events where you'll find real estate agents. But for me it's good, because essentially anybody that's running a business could use content. whether you're starting, like we met some guys starting this new nutrition app, and there's real estate agents, and there's different types of people that I think need content. I think if you run any type of business, you should be posting content. Well that's another thing is like content is ubiquitous these days. If you don't have, like it's table stakes. If you don't have it, you're behind. Right, it's not like, you're.

making content that's super cool. It's like, you don't have content. What are doing? It used to be every single business. Yeah. And I want to talk about that. That was some of the notes we had. I want to talk about what do you think what content does the best? You said what gets the most clicks? You know, what actually brings that awareness to your page? And I think there's three pillars. think number one, you have to have a very raw personality, just a Jordan Belfort totally hard to Andrew Tate, whether you love him or hate him.

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that's the content that's gonna go viral, because it is polarizing. You talk about hate comments, you talk about people being on their side, it's almost like political in how polarizing And I think it's a little bit calculated. 100%. Yeah. And I think if you don't think it is, then you just gotta think again. You're a little naive. Yeah, right. You're like, think this guy's just putting this up there for no reason. For sure. no, he's doing this for a reason. Yeah. I think the second one is, like, you have to be insanely credible. So someone that comes to my mind is like Andrew Huberman. Like,

I don't think Andrew Human is the most interesting person to listen to. If I just close my eyes and he was just talking about his morning, talking about, you know, making breakfast, I don't think he has a cool voice or polarizing, you know, energy, the information that he has and the credibility he has behind it makes you be like, gotta listen to this guy. He's going to help me. You know, my mornings are going to be better because of this guy or whatever it might be. And that's the value. And then I think the third one is raw content. And what I mean by that is like street interviews. You see them doing really well nowadays.

this type of stuff is doing really Sam Sulek content where like he's just in the gym just talking to his camera. Dude, he doesn't even edit it. He doesn't even put captions on it. Yeah. Just throws it on YouTube. Yeah. So I think those are the three main pillars. And I think that's why I'm trying to shift my content because I think that over sensationalized talking at you, trying to give you advice, you know, and tell you what to do. And like, we're all just trying to figure it out as well. The funny thing is, though, is I think, you know, when I'm hearing you saying these things, I'm actually reflecting. I'm like, OK, so which one of these am I? And I'm thinking to myself,

I'm none of them. as you think about it more, you can become any of them. You can also fit yourself into any of them right now. As long as you don't become someone you're not. And also, let's say you want to be somebody that's extremely credible, right? How are you going to become credible? The only way you do it is by continuing to do the thing you're doing. The only way you can become a credible content creator is to create content. Do credible podcasts. Do podcasts. Learn more. Why is Andrew Huberman Andrew Huberman? Because he spent

15 years learning that stuff. He didn't just wake up and he's Andrew Huberman. Exactly and I think some people get it way wrong. They're like man, how lucky is that guy? did it's like no no no. No, what do you mean? You idea, right? You have absolutely no idea what that guy went through to know what he knows. 100 % And then I think unfortunately that what comes to my head in the last one is kind of like that I don't know hedonistic doom-scrolling type of content where it's just girls, you know dancing online. Unfortunately dad gets clicks. Yeah, and I think the thing about that

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Is you can't hate on it, right? Because they're getting views. It is what it is. They have they have an asset or whoever it is. Pretend it's not even girls. It's just somebody with a a polarizing look or they're a spectacle, I guess you could say is the right word for it. And no, they're smart. They leverage that and they made it into a business and they're getting ad revenue or whatever it might be. And I can't hate on that. But I think that's just the easiest one. And some people are just kind of born with that. Yeah. And so your point is whether or not you agree with it from like a moral standpoint.

It is successful. It is what it is from a financial standpoint. It really is what it is. And I think the people that really impressed me the most are people like, there's this girl named Strawberry Milk Mob online. And the story behind her pretty quickly is she was making content that was super produced. You know, she was starting a bikini brand and she would make all this content about her brand and you know, she'd hire a team to come in and create all these videos and they'd look all good and she was getting no views on TikTok.

And her story is she basically realized like, just need to be able to connect with my audience and find a fan base and an audience that will like me for me. And then they're going to, once I get the attention, then I just draw them right to my bikini page and they're going to like me for me. it's that sense of trust or just a sense of like, yeah, I like this person. So I'm going to buy from them. And she started, she goes, I wake up and I try to make 10 TikToks before I go to sleep that night. Just, and it's not produced, it's nothing. And she has, you you post 10 TikToks a day eventually.

You're going to get some followers. going to get some followers. So you're posting 10 TikToks a day. You know what you're doing eventually because you find a niche or a certain thing that people like. know, her big one is, you know, reason number one, why I love men. And then she says all the bad things about men. And it's like a funny little joke she plays. But the thing about her that's impressed me is she's got like two, three million followers on TikTok. And she just rakes it in with the bikini business because she'll make the 10 TikToks, but then promote in like an organic way. Yeah.

So those people really impressed me. So from a business standpoint too, like, you know, I don't think it's a nefarious pursuit to be an authentic person that also wants to sell something. I agree. Right. I agree. I agree. And should the sole goal of your personal brand be commercialization? Maybe. Whatever it is, I don't know. I think what's the other reason to build a personal brand? It's like, because you want to be famous? Sure. Maybe. Right. I you know, that could be it. know, what comes with fame? Money. Right. Most times. So.

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Yeah, I think there's people out there Will Smith talks about, he's like, I love being famous. I don't know what you guys are talking about. You know what I mean? yeah, do think literally, and there's another creator I'll shout out, Ryan Megan. He's another guy who he was behind the Hermosy videos at first, the Grant Cardone videos, kind of that Hermosy style content when it Cause now it's got a name, Hermosy style. so Ryan Megan was the guy behind that.

And he was the guy I was talking to before where he's like, I made no money until I made a lot of money. And he goes, why did I, how did that happen? I made my own personal brand. goes, I was making videos for all these other guys, creating their personal brand for them. Yes. And making, you know, a couple thousand a month doing that. And then he goes, what am I doing? Why am I not doing this for myself? So he posts every single day. And his most recent post was, if you like money, start a personal brand. You're kidding. It's all it was for a lot of people. They, they, they look at it and it's so far away for them.

They see it and they're like there's just no way that could ever be me and so they don't even start No, they don't start and I think that was the hardest part for me is like how could that ever be me like the biggest imposter syndrome possible where Like why would anybody ever want to listen to me? I don't know. I have friends. Don't you have friends? They want to listen to you. There you go. Boom right there start there That's literally where I started I'm like you feel like a piece of shit because you feel like nobody wants to listen to me But you have friends right like you have people that actually like you right? Yeah. All right So there's four billion people on the internet every day. You don't think

a couple hundred thousand of them are gonna like your stuff. You know, if you post every day, you'll find some. Yeah. Right. I always say there's a niche and a creator for every person in this world. I love that, dude. That gives me hope. Like, I don't think there, you said, what are gaps? I don't think there's any gaps. Like, there's no gaps in the content. I think there is a content creator for every single person out here. That's such an interesting way to say it's not like there's this one thing that's underserved. It's like everybody can find their own unique thing that they love. Maybe there's more content on one specific industry or niche, but I still think that there's

content for just about a minute. think the thing that really made this clear to me was an old girlfriend I had, she said to me that she had a friend and her friend was like, Alex Earl did this. And the other person was like, who's Alex Earl? And she's like, you don't know Alex Earl? Do you know Alex Earl? Yeah, of course. But like, she was just so shocked that she, cause in her mind, Alex Earl is the most famous person in the world. Of course. But that's what made me realize, wow, there's really a pocket.

Forever Forward (43:39.156)
on social media for every different person. That's such a good point. You know what mean? Because I know people that I think are like famous, like Ryan Megan, you're probably like, who the hell is Ryan Megan? clue. Right? But to me, he's this guy who's like famous. You know I mean? So. Yeah. And anybody can do it. Yeah. And that's the coolest thing. Well, let me, we're going to do something that's fairly unusual for me on this podcast. I like it. I like it. We're going to share a couple wins, right? Because I want to know about what's not going well. We've talked about the grind. Mm-hmm. Well, like, let me pad my own ego and let me let you pad yours, right?

What's been going well lately for you? Yeah, so I just started editing for this podcast not too long ago. It's called the Birdie to Bogie Show. I see their clips on my feed. They're tremendous. Yeah, I appreciate that. Matt Phelps and Casey Miller, good guys. I've known them for a while. We just did a video on the World Series, the Ja Rule and the... Ja Rule and Fat Joe, the performance. And that video hit 325,000 views this week. So we're happy about that, trying to keep going. That's been the most recent win.

And, yeah, we, we, we just been pumping those podcasts out just like you have every week. We get a podcast. I'm going home tonight. We have some more to edit, but every Thursday we do them and trying to be consistent. This is the ninth week. Let's go. So yeah, no, no misses yet. Yeah. No misses yet. Nine, nine weeks in a row and, actually eight weeks and two last week. So, but yeah, I think eight weeks in 300,000 views on a video on Tik TOK is like a good start. Dude, you would be surprised how few people can do something.

anything for eight weeks straight. yeah, just in general. I'm just in life. I'm serious. It's funny, this is the one thing I don't compromise on. I always upload, and I do it at any cost. However, there have been so many countless other instances in my life where on week one I'm like, man, I'm about to start this new thing. And then week two, I'm like, I'm doing this. And then by week five, I forgot I even started the thing. You know what I mean? So to be able to say that, we're coming up on week 10, good for you. Yeah, I appreciate it. What do you have to compromise on, would you say?

to do this. It's unfortunate. Like going out or. Yeah, I have no free time. Let's put it that way. Unfortunately. And the things that this replaces sometimes are things that maybe I shouldn't compromise on. This is something I'm working through internally. I haven't been going to the gym as much. That's something that I'm really trying to figure out because you can always skip the gym until you get cancer, until you get diabetes. Right, And so that's something. I don't cook for myself as much because when I come home from work, I don't want to cook. I want to do the podcast. So I would get in takeout.

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gaining a little weight. It's like this is the first time ever. As we sit here, I have my pants unbuttoned because my stomach is hanging out. So I say all this to say like, I know that the number one priority for me should be the podcast and a few other things in that bucket, right? Obviously my lovely girlfriend and like my friends and they're all in that top bucket. I'm having a hard time finding time for all of it. And so this is iterative for me. I think I need to figure out like maybe I use like

Schedule app or I just do a better job. I wake up earlier, but it's hard because you only have so many hours in a day Yeah, I wish I could stay awake for 24 hours straight. Yeah, I really do crash out I need I need sleep. I don't know about you, dude I need some sleep, but I'm trying to do a better job because I'm compromising on things that Were non-negotiables for me in the past. Yeah, and I think it's a good sign like man I must really like this podcast. I'm doing the same thing I was a workout fiend for the last four years and then you know you get a job and you got kinds you got clients to

to fulfill. Because the clients come first. Yeah, and then you got your own stuff and you want to do, and there's a lot of things that I wish I could pump out. There's more video. There's so much more YouTube content that I want to post that, like you said, I just need to make the time for it. I think you can come up with a million excuses, but you just got to make the time for it. And you're right. It's tough love. It's like I'm sitting here saying I don't have time for these things. I actually do. Yeah. But there is a reality to this where you wake up in the morning and you're so fried. You're like, I only have the capacity for 14 hours today.

Somebody harder than me might say, dude, you're being a bitch. Yeah, right. Go to the gym. my kickback or rebuttal to that to be with somebody, it would basically be, listen, you started this because you wanted to free up time and have agency, like we said, not to work 16 hours a day. Now, with that being said, in the beginning, we all know you're gonna be working a lot. This is the hardest part. Yeah, this is the hardest part. Starting it and they always say it's like pushing a boulder. In the beginning, it's going nowhere.

But the more you push and the more momentum it gets and then that thing starts rolling down that hill, it's going at a hundred miles per hour. Eventually it goes down a hill. Right now, like I'm right at the base of the hill and it's a big ass hill, right? But it's like someday I feel like I'm finally gonna feel, or maybe I won't. I mean, maybe this is question I have for you is just like, sometimes my biggest fear is like, will I ever feel like I'm ahead of this? Like where I'm, you know what I mean? And maybe once the views start going up and the numbers start to make sense for me, then I'll be like, okay, that's fine. But I feel like I'm always gonna wanna push this so hard. Yeah. Because I love it so much.

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Yeah, it's something to think about. I haven't thought about that either. Like, when am I ever gonna feel like I'm ahead of this instead of I'm trying to up, always trying to catch up, always trying to catch up. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's money. Maybe it's outsourcing it. Maybe, I don't know. I think that's probably the hardest thing is the outsourcing. But real quick, a win for you. You got a win. Thanks, brother. Yeah, man. I've had a bunch of wins. You know, I think one of the most surreal moments for me is I love this show on Netflix called Love on the Spectrum.

It's a show where they profile individuals on the autism spectrum and they kind of play matchmaker in a really respectful way. And there was this guy on there named Connor Tomlinson that I thought was like super cool. He reminded me of myself. And I kind of cold DM'd him and he was like, yeah, for sure I'll come on the show. So I had him on this summer, which was like totally surreal. And that episode continues to get the layman's share of views on Forever Ford, which is fine. I'm fine for that to be the case. Because that's an unreal guest. A more recent win for me though is I learned how to build a website. My website went live last week, foreverfordpod.com.

It looks great. It automatically uploads all my episodes with show notes. I've got a mailing list I'm putting together. Like I never would have thought that I'd know how to do something like that. So like, you know, this isn't necessarily a commercial win or like a data driven win with like, you know, subscribers. This is like, I have this new skill that's going to be additive to this overall mission. That's a big win for me. It's crazy. I can Google this thing and it comes up.

And you did that all by yourself? All by myself. From scratch, just YouTube? YouTube, chat, GPT, ask any questions. now I have a website. I can sort of feel myself as time goes on. I feel more confident adding little pieces to this. Someday it might be merch. Someday it might be a mastermind. Anything. knows? But I'm doing these little bolt-ons that supplement the main product, which is the show, that's getting better every time. And so I'm excited to see where I'm at in five years.

I don't look forward to the grind that it's gonna take, but I know that I'm gonna do the grind. Let me ask you this, because I am curious. You're somebody that charges for your work, right? And I'm very transparent. I haven't made a dollar from the show, and someday I will. Not yet. Was it an interesting mental flip for you to go from someone that does this for fun to now asking somebody to pay you for it? Yeah, and I think it's funny you say that, because it took years. It wasn't like, okay, today I'm waking up and I'm gonna start charging people money, right? It started with, I was doing wedding videos for $1,000.

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you know, anybody that shot a wedding knows it's worth a lot more than a thousand dollars. See, I'm sitting here thinking that's a lot. That's not, it's nothing. And then, you know, it's music videos. know, people are paying me a couple hundred bucks to come shoot a music video. So I think over time, I started to, you have to realize like the expertise you have. My brother always kind of brings me back to earth when it comes to this, when I feel like I'm not charging enough. He brings me back down to earth and he's like, listen, dude, you have 10 years of expertise. You have two cameras that are

You're so right. Professional quality. have all these things that you don't even consider that people will pay you for because they don't know how to do it themselves. As simple as a camera angle or a movement that if they took the same videos, it would look horrible. They couldn't do it. So to answer your question, yeah, I think it is hard to go from doing something that was just fun to me to then making it to my job because like you said, you can villainize it or resent.

the work because it's not what you want to be doing or you're not getting paid what you think you deserve. there any imposter syndrome? my God, someone's paying me for this, but why would they? Or no, you felt confident? Yeah, maybe a little bit in the beginning, but I think we talked about this the way the world's going and I think the importance that content has on a business and putting it on social media. And I think when I was selling solar panels, I wasn't as convicted. I think, you know, it could save you money. There's problems that arise from it and

I don't think it's a bad product, let's put it there. But I wasn't sitting there waking up like, my God, I can't wait to go sell solar panels today. My conviction in content and the way that I think it can change somebody's life, their life and their business is the reason why I feel like I don't feel bad about charging. And I still am needing to get to the point where I need to charge more. Well, I was gonna ask you maybe one of the last questions I wanna ask is, how do you determine your worth? Yeah, I think it depends on...

And that's something I battle with every day. That's literally something I still battle with every day. one goal I have in my content and coming on podcasts is I don't ever want to come on and feel like, I have it all figured out. Like, I don't at all have it out. Especially when it comes to pricing and deliverables and what can I provide, my service, what can I provide? I want to be transparent in that. Like, I think you should make content because I think it'll make you more money. But figuring out what to charge somebody definitely is probably the hardest thing.

Forever Forward (52:55.758)
Because what am I going to provide, what am I providing for you? What is it going to do for you? Like, is it going to make you direct ROI? And is it worth what you think I'm charging you? Because I basically tell you what I think I'm worth and you either agree or you don't. don't. And sometimes it's even hard for you to figure out, like sometimes the ROI is hard to forecast. 100%. We're going to do this and this is what I think it's going to do, but I can't tell you for sure.

And that's probably an expectation that you have to manage with clients. Especially with content, know, and with this comedian that I work with, Ant Robo, even then, you know, they say they pay him for a video and they think it's going to get 100,000 views. But then for whatever reason, it flops because somebody saw it was a product or they didn't shoot it the right way. So, yeah, I definitely think that's something that everybody that deals with social media clients deals with. It's like, what's the expectation and like, what can I really provide for you and promise you? Right.

Because I think people make big promises nowadays, you know, because it's very easy to throw a problem I'll get you 20 new clients or you're gonna get a hundred thousand views or a million views because that's what's gonna sell somebody I'll get you a million views and I think the issue is making good on it good And I feel like the more times you make a promise and fall through you only have so many shots on goal before people are like this is like boy Yeah, I was gonna say I definitely especially with

people in that network, because then your name gets thrown out there. And then I think something you to be careful is like internet reviews nowadays are huge. There's whole companies that are fishing for good reviews on their websites. Really? Trustpilot is a company that one of my cousins just interviewed for not too long ago. And they just deal with reviews completely. Their whole business model is getting reviews for companies online.

Isn't that crazy? interesting. I know, it's crazy. Is it because of the social proof? if someone else says it's good, then I'll trust. Yeah, and I think honestly, maybe for the podcast it's a little different. Like obviously I've had a good experience and maybe some of your guests, could be like, You could leave a review, whatever. You you mentioned you reach out to people to come on the podcast. You could even send them like, here's the reviews of the people that have been on. You know, it's funny, one of the pages on my website are testimonials from listeners and guests. Exactly. So I think that's huge is like showing that social proof. And that's why I think people make content to begin with. think

Forever Forward (55:04.846)
you know before we end I wanted to let you know like my Content I think is gonna shift in the future and I don't want to promise anything because then you know you're help yourself to it Yeah, but I think what I am thinking about doing is making my content more raw and more real and what I'm really planning on doing is Taking the work that I do for my clients and documenting it more. I actually just had a setup in my room I bought this like this this crane like this little claw for my desk

put my camera up on it, I got a light, a mic, so all I have to do is just hit record. Dude, you can even speed that up, which is I'm sure what you do is, I mean, that would be, I mean, you're already doing it. Right, and the whole goal is to document the journey of me creating this content for these clients that I have, because I think it's more raw, it's more real. People wanna see that. Yeah. So. Incredible, man. Well, look, guess let me ask you one final question as you sit here. It seems like you've had a pretty unique road, right? mean, I'm sure some ups, some downs.

to anybody that wants to take, like, let's say an ambitious leap of faith or is trying to try something new, do you have any advice whether it's content or not, just in life? Yeah, I think one thing that I've experienced and any advice I could give somebody that really wants to just take that leap of faith is the pain of this current situation you're in right now has to outweigh what you think it's gonna be like to start that journey and the pain that you're gonna go through in that journey. Because I always said to myself, you know, when it came to the gym,

You know, somebody, I remember a kid asked me one time, he's like, you you lift a lot. This is like prior to my lifting a couple of years ago. I was like, I was probably like 220. And I'm like, I'm like a big dude at this point. This guy's like, you're a big dude. you know, I go, the pain of me looking at myself in the mirror and being this scrawny, 185 pound kid, outweigh, does not even compare, doesn't even compare to the pain that it takes to go to the gym and, you know, lift a few weights for 45 minutes a day. So I think if you really want to make that leap, you will.

And you'll know. You'll know. And I always say, if you wanted to do it, you would have. And if you didn't want to, you wouldn't have. That's like, that's why I live by, bro, because I'm like, I never heard that. I like that. Is that an original quote? I've never heard anybody say it, if you wanted to do it, you would have already done it. Yeah. Wow. And that's, think anybody wanting to take that leap of faith, sometimes it does. It does take an, you know, an opinion of somebody that's close to you or a little nudge. Like I think it's okay to have somebody to push you because you know you need to do it. But

Forever Forward (57:20.974)
Eventually you were gonna you were gonna start this podcast. It was inevitable It was gonna happen whether it was in two years whether it was five years ago You were gonna do it regardless. So you always knew it. Yeah, I always knew it. I was you to do it though It's funny like, know, I I've told this story on a pocket and you know on a forum podcast Really? The truth is is you know, I never really allowed myself to ask myself hard questions I always was on the prime and proper path which was like it good grades in high school Go to a good university get a good job. Yeah, work really hard impress your boss, right and

I think for a few years after college, that was like a really exciting thing. Like I get to wear a suit, I'm in the office, I'm in the boardroom, I'm feeling good about myself. And then all of a sudden I kinda come up on my 27th-ish birthday and I was really trying really hard for this promotion I wanted to get at work. And I had been working just like nights and weekends and really sacrificing my life energy for this future goal that I was hoping to obtain. And I didn't get the promotion. I got passed over. And in that moment, I had to look at myself and be like,

are you gonna continue to work so hard so that other people can give you this validation that you'll only enjoy for a week? Or are you gonna finally look up, man up and be like, look, there's something else in this world that you should be putting this energy into that could be something that you've always wanted. And so for me, it was really born out of this like existential crisis of like, I cannot fathom doing another year striving to impress other people. And that I think for me was the strongest motivation I've ever had. It's like, it's either the podcast,

or like, or nothing. Like what's life gonna be in 20 years? Totally. I don't even want to imagine a future where I continue to do what I'm doing. Now, I'm not like a depressed miserable person, but in that moment, I'm like, there is no stronger motivation for me to change my life than the feeling that I'm feeling the day I got passed off for that promotion. And it was an interesting flip because my whole life, you know, I'd been passing on promotions before, but it was always like, okay, next year, like, let me really try harder for these guys. Let me show them that I can do this.

There was something about it that it was like, wait a second, I don't have to do this for you. I can start doing this for me. And then that's where we are. And now that I've sort of caught that bug, I'm never going back. I think it does take something like that though. Like you said that, you get passed on a promotion or whatever. You wake up one day and you're like, this just can't be my life. I kept thinking, I'm like, am I just going to sell solar panels in Albany for the next 15? Like, when is this going to end? You're like, is this ever going to change? it's like, you, know, Theo Von, love the guy.

Forever Forward (59:46.57)
Nothing changes and nothing changes and that's the truth. And for me it was like, if I don't change, this will be my life. And for me it was not like, I don't want this to be my life. It's like, this cannot be my And we're in an age range too where it's getting scary because we have that full opportunity to do whatever we want but give it five, seven, eight years. gets tougher. Your 30s, your mid 30s, you have kids. There's certain situations in life where you just...

can't do it. It would be irresponsible for you to walk out on your family and say, I'm just gonna go start this podcast. Dude, you're so right. You're so Are you kidding me? And that's why being in your mid-20s is such a good time, because you have the flexibility. And I don't think people realize that, because they get the first job. They're like, man, I'm so happy to be exactly where I am right now. And then maybe 10, 15 years goes by, and they're like, wait a second. I wish I had asked myself the hard question then, because now I have a wife, now I have a kids, now I have this huge mortgage. And I'm not saying you can't do it. You still can. Of course. It's just harder.

A lot harder and you have a lot more riding on it. guess you could say a lot. Yeah, a lot more riding on it. Like Joe Rogan's mentioned that he's like, dude, once you're, know, a lot of men live lives of quiet desperation. I've heard you seen that. So it's just like because they're in their fifties and they got kids, they got a wife, they got a mortgage. Like what? I'm going to walk out and go start my passion project now. Like, no, that was for 20 years ago when you're supposed to do that. It's like you can still try. Yeah, but it's man, it's going to be hard. A lot harder. Right. A harder. Awesome, man. Well, this has been a

Fucking tremendous conversation awesome, bro. I think we've been going now for over an hour. I can't thank you enough for jumping on absolutely, but I appreciate you appreciate you as well. going man